As it is in just about any industry, speakers look for ways to set themselves apart from the pack. This results in more gigs and an easier and shorter selling process. What would it mean to you if you could accomplish both of these at the same time? What would it mean for your revenue? How about your confidence? Well, Arel Moodie is here to show specific strategies on how to book more speaking engagements by leveraging data in a way most speakers aren’t. And get this … it’s easy!
As it is, in just about any industry, speakers look for ways to set themselves apart from the pack. This results in more gigs and an easier and shorter selling process. What would it mean to you if you could accomplish both of these at the same time? What would it mean for your revenue? How about your confidence? Well, Arel Moodie is here to show specific strategies on how to book more speaking engagements by leveraging data in a way that most speakers don’t. And get this it’s easy. Arel is the Disney plus host of Family Reboot, a bestselling author and professional speaker who has spoken in 48 states and five countries to over 750,000 people while generating millions of dollars from his speaking business. He is also the co founder of Talkadot, a software tool designed to help speakers pull leads from their audience easily, get testimonials and audience data, and build their credibility so they can book more speaking engagements. Here’s my conversation with Arel Moodie. Oh, yeah. Be sure to stay tuned until the end for a very special offer from Arel. Hi, Arel. Welcome to the show, dude.
Super excited to connect with you. You are clearly a well-versed ninja of public speaking skills from our conversation we had before recording. So super excited to be here.
Thank you so much. Although some speakers have all the work they want, which is great, a fair number are always striving, if not struggling to get more. How can speakers make it easier for event planners to say yes to getting booked?
Yeah, you’re 100% on the ball with it. The most important thing is to think of how people make buying decisions today. If I were to jump on Amazon, what’s the number one thing that I’m going to be curious about when I’m searching for an item? It’s going to be reviews. If I’m going to go on Airbnb, stay at a place I’ve never stayed at, what’s the number one thing I care about? It’s reviews. Why do I care about it? Well, it’s simply these reviews are third-party verifications of people who have no skin in the game. To give you an unbiased answer on what it’s like to use this product, every product description I e speaker website is supposed to say, I’m the greatest speaker in the world. Go to any speaker website. We all look exactly the same, whether we want a minute or night. No one ever says I was the 15th-best speaker at a conference, right? No one ever says that. We’re all the best. So how do we help event planners say yes? The key to separate yourself from the crowd is actually starting to gather reviews quantitative, like one- to five-star kind of reviews, quantitative data, as well as qualitative data to separate yourself from everyone else.
That makes perfect sense. We’re all thumping our chest saying, I’m the greatest. Well, you’re just putting yourself in the pack. When you were saying that, I thought about years ago, I was traveling, and I saw a billboard that said, second best apple pie in the country.
Didn’t you want to stop there?
I did. The apple pie was awesome.
And the reason why that’s so important is because most people, their marketing efforts are akin to throwing a cup of water into the ocean. If you sound like everyone else and look like everyone else, you’re not really separating yourself. But the world’s best pie okay, fine. The world’s second-best pie. And I’m sure every single person walks in there and goes, well, if you’re second, who’s first? Right? It’s a conversation. You’re connected. They go, no, this was actually the best pot. So it’s all about separating yourself from the pact. And that, my friend, what you said is, like, perfect.
I asked them, actually, not to get too far off the topic here, but I asked them why. Second, they said, one, it got your attention. Two, you came here. Three, if we said we were the best, that would have been insulting your grandmother.
OOH, that last part. That’s the magic right there.
I never forgot it. And that had to be 20 some odd years ago.
Love it. Love it.
So what’s missing with how people who book speakers today, what’s that part that is in every buying process but doesn’t get covered?
Well, what happens is the reason why we don’t have data right now feedback, reviews, is because event planners know that if you do collect data, typically you’re going to weed out any of the stuff that’s not glowing. So, for example, people right now can say, hey, I use Google Forums or I use SurveyMonkey, which is already if you do that, you’re heads and shoulders above everyone else, because most people don’t. But when we interviewed event planners when we were building out our tool, one of the things that was told to us was, well, we know that if you do a Google Forms, you can edit your Google Forms. So I’m not getting a true representation. I’m getting what you feel most comfortable sharing with me. So what happens is event planners want to make the decision. And what you and I know and if you’re listening to this, you should know this if an event planner books you and you fail, they could lose their job. It’s a big deal. So event planners do not want to make a decision to hire someone that they don’t feel an overabundance of confidence that they’re going to do a good job. So we’ve got to, one, move into that idea of collecting objective data that’s third party verified. So it’s not like it’s just me saying it right and making it easy for the event planner to go, we’re good. In the quick example I’ll give here is if you had children and you needed to hire a babysitter and let’s say, assume you couldn’t get a recommendation from a friend, would you go online and hire a babysitter that had zero reviews or one review? Or if there was a babysitter that had 7005 star reviews, you’d be like, okay, I have more confidence that they’re going to take care of my children safely. That’s where I think is completely missing in the speaking industry and what we have to move toward.
I think that’s a great point because too few of us, I believe, look at it from that perspective, the meeting planner’s perspective, that I don’t have to hire you. You can tell me you’re great all you want, but my butt’s on the line here, and it’s easier for me to not hire you and be sure I’m okay than hire you and wondering if I made the right move.
And that’s why so many event planners, especially I’m a professional speaker that I’ve spoken in the high school space, the college space, the nonprofit space, the corporate space, the government space. I’ve spoken a lot. There are certain speakers that get booked over and over and over again simply because the event planner is like, I know you’re good. I don’t want to risk it, right? There’s other industries where they never book the same speaker twice, but the amount of hours an event planner goes into looking at videos, comparing videos, looking through research, it’s unlike anything any speaker probably will grasp because they never see it. But if you actually interact with event planners and I would encourage every speaker to do this, the next time someone books you to speak, ask them what their decision making process was to select you. Most of the time, we’re just like, oh, you booked us. We’re happy that you booked this, and we move on. But if you actually ask how many meetings they had, how many times they put you side by side to this person and went through the pros and cons and researched you, if you can make it easier for them to say yes through Data, which I’m happy to go into recommendations on how to do that. But if you can make it easy for people to say yes to Data, you get the edge. And right now, you would put yourself heads and shoulders above everyone else with that one simple thing.
So using data, you say data to me, I get nervous. Yeah, I joke around. I married an accountant for a reason. I’m not a data guy. So how can we use data to get more engagements?
You’re 100% right about that, because most of us as speakers, we just want to speak. Like, if we could do nothing else all we did was show up on stage and speak. That’s the dream world. Everything else, it’s not necessarily our wheelhouse. So you’re 100% not alone. And I’m not an organic data person, if that makes sense. So what we did with Talkadot, which is the software tool we created, which I’m going to talk about, the software tool, and before anyone freaks out, it’s 100% free to use, right? So I don’t want anyone to be like, oh Lord have mercy, he’s going to try to sell me something, right? So it’s a free software. We obviously have a Pro feature where if you want to upgrade, you can. But this is the key that I want you to get. All you have to do with Talkadot is get a QR code that we provide for you, insert it into your slide deck. We also create a slide deck for and all you do is ask your audience at the end, would you mind taking a quick survey to let me know what you thought about it? I want to know what you liked about it so I could do more of it. I want to know what you disliked about it so I can do less of it. And then, when people take the QR code, we have a pre-built survey, so you don’t have to worry about building it. It automatically turns your answers into a report for you that gets sent to your back end, and you can send it to your clients and say, hey, we just spoke. So literally, I wanted something that had no heavy lift whatsoever, and I built an incredible tool with an incredible amount of smart people. So I think the way that you collect data, in my opinion, is like use a tool I talk about. There’s no reason not to use us because the data side is free. We have the lead generation side, which is where the Pro account goes into, but the data is the game, right? And you can use SurveyMonkey, you can use Type form, you can use Google Forms. If you did that, that would be great. You just have to deal with crunching the numbers yourself and turning them into visual graphs or hiring people. And our software really does it all for you because we want the cream of the crop of speakers to be able to rise to the top. And if you’re going to say something or do something that actually is going to hurt you without you knowing, we want you to be aware of it so you don’t have to do that anymore.
I get two things from this. One is, like you said early on, you can go to a meeting plan or whomever might be hiring you and say, I have data based on things I’ve done in the past and based on those who’ve attended my talks. The other thing is where you say you have this premade. If I know, Talkadot is going to say, what do you think about the length of the talk? What do you think about A-B-C? Well, I better have those questions answered that I’ve busted my butt to make these points good, which makes my presentation better, which in turn gets better reviews, which in turn gets me more talks.
That actually is a very high level secret. Honestly, if anyone’s listening to this, if you are at all curious of working with a smart person, you’ve got to work with Peter, because most people don’t realize that what you just said, Peter, which is this, right? If I am letting my host do the event evaluation, I don’t know what questions they’re asking. I don’t know what they’re evaluating me on. So I’m hoping I’m going to do a good job. But if I know what the questions are, if I’m surveying myself on how engaging I am, well, I got to make sure I do some level of engagement in my talk. If I’m gauging myself on how inspiring I am, I got to make sure I have an inspirational story. So as long as I look at the metrics of the survey and make sure my presentation has it, well, then I’m going to do a good job. And that will make you so much better than the average speaker, because most speakers just word vomit and hope that the audience had a good experience.
I believe this is a great training tool as well as a wonderful opportunity. If I get negative responses, I can work on those aspects of my talk and if need be, delete them and add in something that might be more beneficial to the audience.
That’s right. And I’ll tell you a perfect story of this. Right. So I speak. Now, in addition to running Talkadot, right, Talkadot.com is the website for anyone interested. One of the pieces of feedback I got in my presentation, I told this story of how there are some people who accept what life gives them, and some people will work as hard as they can regardless of what life gives them. I gave the example of obesity, so I said, hey, there are some people who say, hey, obesity runs in my family, so I’m not going to exercise. I’m not going to eat healthy, because even if I did, I would still be obese. And then there’s another type of person that’ll go, it doesn’t matter what my family code is. I’m still going to exercise. I’m still going to eat healthy because I have to be as best in control of my life as I can. So I’ve been giving that analogy and why it’s important to not accept what’s been given to you and to work hard. Right? I’ve been giving analogy for a long time. When I started using Talk It Up, someone gave me feedback that said, Arel, I felt like you were fat shaming when you gave that example. And I was like, yo, that’s literally 100% not my intention. But then I wonder how many people thought that but never said anything to me because everything else was great, so maybe they didn’t feel comfortable coming up to me. So what I did with that piece of feedback is I changed it to heart disease. So instead of talking about obesity, I said, well, some people might have heart disease that runs in their family. So instead of exercising and eating well, they just do what they want. But other people say it doesn’t matter. And you know what? Ever since I’ve done that, I’ve never gotten one critical feedback on that part. So what happens is there’s lots of things that could get us canceled that are not our intentions or things that could be offending an audience that in all reality we’re not aware of because it’s not on our radar. So when I look at speakers who go, oh, I don’t want any negative feedback, I was like, well, what is the truth in it? Because there’s some people who might say, Arel, I don’t like the fact that you’re bald, which has never happened. But let’s say someone said, Arel, you’re bald. You should grow hair and be like, well, I can’t do anything with that. There’s no truth in that. I’m a bald man. It ain’t going to happen, right? So I think if you actually can find out those blind spots and then work with someone like Peter who can help you craft your message to become even better, that’s when you go from zero to world class in a short period of time. I think if you’re afraid of sunshine, then you’re going to live in the dark, which is not what it’s not what we want as speakers. We want to be out there sharing our message.
To your point, I wish I had had this last year, I believe it was, where someone came up to me and said, I know you didn’t mean to offend anybody by saying this, but you may have. And I thought, but it’s factual. And they said, yes, it is. That doesn’t matter. I thought, wow, I wonder how many people I had offended. And I had only included that maybe in five talks. Yeah, that feedback is constructive away from talk about here for a second. Someone’s just criticizing you. That’s different. Criticizing is you’re bald and people can’t see, but you wear bald very well.
Critique is constructive and we can use it. And that’s where I see the power here.
You had said you put this at the end of a talk. Is it at the very end? Like, a lot of people have that last slide with the QR code that says, contact me here or get my book here or whatever. And you never, ever see phones come up? Well, I shouldn’t say never, but quite often, you don’t see phones come up pretty much never.
Pretty much never.
So is this right at the end like that?
No. So this is what we found. So we’ve had over 75,000 surveys taken, right. So we have a lot of data on what works and what doesn’t. And what we found is the absolute best place to put in the survey is right before you’re closing. So all speakers have a closing story, a call to action, a final thing we do to send our audience off. If you do a survey, any survey, at the very end, think about this. People are clapping. They’re not going to stop clapping, go into their pocket, take out their phone, scan the QR code, and go to the thing, right? They’re not going to do it. So the first thing is you have to do it right before you’re closing. Now, what I recommend doing is using language that sounds like this. By a show of hands, how many people here felt that this presentation was actually valuable? Now, if you do a good job up until this point, everyone’s hand should go up at that moment. They have the highest level of reciprocity for you, meaning you just poured into them for, say, 45 or 50 minutes of an hour keynote. And they’re like, I owe Peter, I owe you, the listener, because you were so amazing. Then I say, well, thank you. The greatest way to pay me back is to let me know what you thought about this presentation. I want to know what you liked about it so I can do more of it. I want to know what you disliked about it so I can do less of it. And then you’d be very descriptive. All you have to do is pull out your phones right now. Go ahead, pull out your phones, scan the QR code. It takes less than two minutes to fill out this quick survey. And then, as a thank you for taking the survey for everyone who takes it, I want to give you my five steps for being a better public speaker. Like, if I’m Peter, so you can give them a carrot at the end of it. Now, what a savvy presenter will do is actually tee it up earlier in the presentation. Like, let’s say, for example, let’s say you have the amazing book a captivating public speaker, and you talk about some cool things that you teach in the captivating public speaker, which is a great book by you, Peter George, right? Now what you can say is in my book, I go over X, Y, and Z. If anybody wants a copy of my book, I’ll be happy to give it to you at the end of this presentation. Oh my gosh, she’s going to give me a copy of the book. Now, what I do is I give out a PDF of the book, or you can take one section of the book so you don’t give away the whole kit and caboodle, but you give away, like, your really good thing in your book and you turn it into a PDF, and you say, hey, remember this thing I talked about earlier? I’m happy to give that to you at the end of the presentation. Oh, remember the thing I talked about earlier? If you take this survey, I’m happy to give it to you. Now you’re giving them something that’s of high value that they want. Then if I read the PDF, I might want to buy 100 copies of it for my team. Or if I read a portion of it, I might want to go on Amazon and buy the rest of it. So doing it right before you’re closing and giving them that carrot, and you can give a video a PDF, and this is all built into the talk system again, fully for free, for folks to use that will allow them to take the survey and then at the end get that carrot. So now you’re building your and our survey helps you build your email list. It helps you identify leads in the audience, and it gets you the data and gives away that lead capture, which most of us don’t do a great job of actually getting them to take a lead capture.
Which is unfortunate because what better time to get people to come to you and say speak at my organization? Let’s say you’re speaking at the SAE, the society for association executives. That audience is made up of the directors of associations, right? What better time to get leads?
This is, in my opinion, and this is my humble opinion because obviously, I’ve built this over proud of it, right? But as a speaker, there is a truth that nobody can convince me differently of. The single best way to book more speaking engagements is to have someone in your audience who can book speakers to see you speak. There’s no email campaign that beats that. There’s no social media campaign that beats that. There’s no direct mail. Nothing beats, I can go in in 1 hour, someone who has no idea who I am sees me speak and then goes, I want you to come be at my event here, I want to pay you. Right? The challenge is how do you identify those people? So one of the things we have and talk about pre-built in is a survey flow. One of the questions says, do you book speakers? Do you want to book? Peter brilliant if they say yes, then we say, Great. Can we capture information? If they say no, we totally skip those questions. So they’re not getting hit with blundered, with questions that don’t mean anything to them. They’re only getting questions that are relevant to them. And then at the end of it, we give you an Excel spreadsheet that you can download. We have an internal use as well. So we give you the spreadsheet so you could upload it to your CRM or whatever, but literally imagine as soon as you’re done speaking, not only do you have data, but you got a list of everyone in the audience who rose their hand and said, yes, I want to book you to speak. And then you can reach out to them. And it’s all automatic. It just is a no-brainer. And I think if Savvy speakers use this, they’ll see that that heavy lifts part is just so much easier because it’s just built-in tech takes care of it.
How can every speaker not have this?
It’s a great question, man. That’s what we’re trying to figure out. You know, we the the main goal is to get this in the hands of speakers and get them using it, right? So then people might ask, and if I was listening to this, I’d be like, well, if that’s free, how do you make money?
That was my next question, by the way.
Yeah, happy to do that. So we have a pro version of it. The pro version of it is $35 a month, billed annually. So it’s $420 a year. So it’s not like we’re asking for everything. If you book one keynote, most speakers should ten x their investment in us, right? So we have features where you can add these custom questions. You can get more speaker leads, you can get more things you can give away. So it just gives you more of all the cool tools we have. But you can get unlimited data reports and unlimited surveys with our free account. But the leads, we cap at 100. So to me, if you get 100 leads and after that, you should like, okay, you should be like, I’m happy to invest in you a little bit, right? So our job is to create for you before we get and that’s how much it costs. That’s how we monetize it. But we know that if speakers are using it and getting data, that’s going to elevate their game. And then if they collect leads and then they can book more speaking engagements, we hope to be just an invaluable asset in your speaking tool set.
If they can use this, the free version to book leads and get enough of, they should be sending you the $420 anyway.
That’s our goal. Our goal is to say, use us first, get value out of it. And look, if you can book one speaking, I mean, I want you to get this. Let’s say you charge $3,000, which is by far the entry-level charge for any high school college. I don’t even think corporations will pay you 3000. I don’t know if any corporation would even go that low. They typically like to charge way more. But if you’re looking at any entry-level, it’s at least 3000. Like 4000 is like you can definitely get 4000. By the way, if anyone is like, oh, I charge $500, up your fees to $3000 and see how many people still say yes. Right? They’re going to pay you, like, $50, right? But, like any organization that has any kind of normal organizational structure of booking speakers, you can come in minimally. And again, that’s very minimally. So you can ten X with one speaking engagement. So if you use the data and we also have data that instantly turns into social media images. So after you speak, you can instantly post your images on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, to say, look at this great impact we had. So you can get leads through your social media, through Talkadot. We give you data that you can share with your host and say, look how great it was. We should do more. The audience wants to rebook me. Their data shows it, so you can get rebooked with it. You can share it to upcoming prospects and say, hey, here’s what I’ve been doing. I want to make it easy for you to say yes, so you can get booked that way. And then, we capture leads in the audience so that the people in the audience who want to book you, you now can follow up with them. There’s like 17 different ways to get booked here. And if you use it, you’ll see it’s really simple. And then if it works, then obviously we’d love for you to upgrade to the pro, but if not, use the free account. You’ll love it.
How’d you come up with this? Because like you said before, if you’re using Google forms and the like, that’s good. What made you say, I want to take this and put all that effort into it and all the money and time that goes with it to provide this system that will help other speakers?
Yeah, I wish I was this smart to say it was my idea. I’m going to tell you exactly the story. This is the true story of how we came up with talking about. So I imagine every speaker after they speak, has experienced this. Someone comes up to you and says, I want to get into Speaking too. How’d you get into speaking? Right? And then you’re like, oh, so there was an entrepreneur group that I’m a part of, and one of our co members sold her company. She was a tech business, sold it, and was looking to get into speaking. And they said, Contact the rel. He speaks all the time. She was like. Could you help me? And I was like, sure. Happy to help. Right? So just gave some feedback, gave some ideas, right? Now, here’s where it’s fascinating. I kept explaining to her, here’s how the business works. Here’s how you book speaking engagements. And she kept asking me this question, well, why is it done that way? Why is it done that way? And I kept giving her the worst answer in the world, which is, that’s the way it’s always been. It’s a cloak-and-dagger industry, right? Like, you got to know someone. You got to get in. And she’s like, what if you could just make it easier for people to say yes? Because a lot of times, what happens for those speakers who don’t have to do any marketing and all these leads come to them, the odds are that they just luckily fell into a vertical that started building this perpetual pin wheel that just kept flowing, flowing. So every time they speak, they’re in front of new people who can book them to speak, who reach out to book them to speak, and they’re like, oh, I just have an amazing message. It’s like, well, it’s not just that you have an amazing message. You fell into a vertical. Like, if you speak, for example, like an insurance group, and then everyone in the audience own their own insurance businesses, so they book you to speak for their business, and then when you speak for their business, someone on there has a board of another insurance association, and then the pinwheel goes, so some people get lucky. So she just said, well, what if we made it easier for really good speakers to showcase and elevate out of the crowd of others? And I was like, well, what would that look like? She was like, I don’t know, but we could figure it out together. And then we sat down and said, well, what would be an amazing opportunity? And her name is Pokin Yeung. And we got a third co founder who’s our technical co founder named Jared calif. And he built an incredible business, sold out of it, and was looking for his next adventure. Poking was looking for a next adventure. And I was like, honestly, if this all fails, I just want this for me. This is my magic wand. If you could do all this, and I didn’t have to do any of it. And there’s a great quote about tech that says, when technology works correctly, it’s indistinguishable from magic. And I was like, this is the magic I want the tech to do for me. And they said, we can build it, and that’s where we are today.
I love that. It’s nice when someone from outside the industry looks at it from they’re looking at it from so far away, and we’re inside the jaw trying to read the label.
It’s such a great analogy, because I imagine when you work with speakers, speakers come out and you can see in an instant, stop doing this, start doing this. And the only difference is, you’re just a couple of steps removed so you can see the whole picture. And really smart people are open to actually outside feedback, because if you have two kind of incestuous ideologies, you can miss something that’s clear as day. So I think you’re 100% right about that. And I love that idea of reading the jar, reading the label from inside the jar, but you can’t. You’re too close. That’s 100% what happened to me. 100%.
Yeah, I think it happens to most people. Arel, if I’m right, you have a couple of onboarding sessions coming up soon. If someone were to subscribe to Talkadot, they can almost immediately get help and up to speed.
That’s right, yeah. So if you go to Talkadot.com, which is Talkadot, and people say, what does Talk about mean? It was just a funny thing that we said, if you want to talk a lot, you should get some talkadot. And we joked about it, and then we just said, let’s just call that the company. Right? So talkadot.com is the website. You can go there, get your free account, and on the bottom of the web page, we have all of our onboarding calls, and we do one a week. So if you can’t make it this week, make it next week. If you can’t make it next week, do the next week. And our job is to answer all your questions, make sure you’re set up. We understand that most speakers are not too tech savvy, so if you’re not tech savvy, we got you. We have an incredible support team that will make sure everything you need is set up. Like, our job is to be the best tech support company that someone has experienced for speakers on the data side that they’ve ever experienced. And you don’t have to be a data nerd. You don’t have to be a data scientist to benefit from it. But what you can do is, by using our tool, make it so that the people who are like, well, what data do you have to prove how effective your presentations are? What data do you have? You could be like, well, here you go. And then they go, well, we must book this person, and our job is to get you there without you having to be the expert yourself.
And that’s one of the things we often don’t have, is that data. Someone says, well, we don’t have data in our industry.
We don’t. Let’s be honest. You’ve been speaking for 20 years. Let’s say someone’s been speaking for 20 years. What data do we collect? Or how effective we’ve been over the last 20 years? We don’t. We just say, I hope that the fact that I’ve been doing this for 20 years is enough. Right. But what if you could say, like, here’s data. Even if you start today, the old saying is the best time to plant a bamboo tree is 20 years ago. The second best time to plant one is today. Right? So if you start doing it today and then over the next five years, you have this incredible data that showcases, it becomes every time you do a speech, it becomes easier and easier to get a new one.
You call this a tool? I truly believe it’s not a tool. I think you and your team put together a gift for speakers. Whether that’s at the free level or the paid level, this is a gift.
I appreciate that, man. That is an extremely kind compliment.
Arel, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you here. I will put it in the show notes for people to go to talkadot.com and I just wish you the best with this on your own speaking journey. And just thanks so much for being here. It’s been a pleasure.
You know what, I appreciate that and I’ll do something real cool for the listeners here. If you click on the link that’s going to be in the show notes or you go to talker.com, just make sure to say Peter George. One of the questions in the onboarding process is how’d you hear about us. If you put in Peter George, we’ll upgrade you to a Pro account for 30 days so you can play around with it and we’ll give you a discount as well off of the total price if you do decide to upgrade to Pro. So that will be just as a thank you for listening to Peter, to engaging yourself in your professional development journey. We like to reward that. So that’ll be a little thing that we’ll do just for your listeners as a thank you.
Thank you so much, Arel. That’s pretty gracious of you.
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, brother!
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